IBS Interview Podcast: Shakira Abdul-Ali

April 7, 2024
Black Summit Interviews
Season 2, Episode #5 - Shakira Abdul-Ali

This month, Glenn Greenidge and Grace Lawrence interview SHAKIRA ABDUL-ALI: 

Shakira Abdul-Ali is an organization development consultant, facilitator, trainer and coach, with proven success in delivering business, organization and personal effectiveness programs. She has supported institutions in generating value through assessments for diversity, equity and inclusion, supplier diversity programming and development, designing and managing culture change and organization learning, and building high-performance teams and work systems. An MBTI® qualified facilitator, Ali also uses such instruments as the Enneagram, DiSC and FIRO BTM to assist clients in identifying strengths and challenges. 

Her professional experiences include a tenure of some seventeen years in the public sector where she served variously as an Economic Development Planner for the City of Newark; Assistant Director for the NJ Governor’s Study Commission on Discrimination in Public Contracts; Technical Assistance Office Administrator, and Chief of Minority Business Enterprise for the NJ Department of Commerce & Economic Development. More recently she served as the director for the City of Trenton Department of Health and Human Services, and was recently appointed to serve as a Board Member for Governor Murphy’s newly created Maternal and Infant Health Innovation Authority. 

She also worked in the private sector, providing support to public sector agencies, in the delivery of human resource and business diversity compliance management programs. As a Senior / Special Project Manager for Armand Resource Group, Abdul-Ali managed compliance for millions of dollars of contracts for minority and women-owned businesses. She designed one of the largest compliance review initiatives in the country, on behalf of the City of New York. That project comprised a review of 45 city agencies’ purchasing practices, in order to design a program to increase procurement from M/WBE-owned companies. She delivered a similar project for a county-wide mental health services agency in Michigan. For that effort, she designed a process and led a team to conduct an organization-wide assessment for diversity, equity and inclusion, and designed a culture change initiative to assist the agency in addressing the barriers and maximizing the assets, to incorporate a new vision for DEI in that agency. 

Shakira earned a baccalaureate degree in Economics and Urban Studies from Wellesley College and a Master of Science in Organization Development from the American University/NTL Program. She is a member of the NTL Institute for Applied Behavioral Science. She acquired coach training with New Ventures West, Inc., as well as a Certificate of Leadership for Diversity Training with the National Coalition Building Institute. She is a co-author of The Sustainable Enterprise Fieldbook: When It All Comes Together, American Management Association / Greentree Press, publishers.

For more information about the International Black Summit, please go to:

Website – blacksummit.org
Twitter – @blacksummit
Facebook – facebook.com/blacksummit/
IBS News Sign-Up – bit.ly/IBS-signup
IBS Annual Summit Event Registration – blacksummit.org/ase

The views and opinions expressed by the person interviewed are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the International Black Summit.

Transcript

[TRANSCRIPT HAS NOT BEEN EDITED NOR PROOFREAD]

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Hi, everyone and welcome to the International Black Summit Interview podcast. If you're not familiar with the International Black Summit, we are an organization created in 1,991 and our purpose is for our summit participants to bring into being their vision for the black community and the world.

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And in this podcast, we interview current and past participants or facilitators of the International Black Summit to find out how they use and have used the International Black Summit's tools and distinctions in their lives, in their families, and in their communities.

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So come learn about the International Black Summit with us tonight as we interview tonight's guest. Shakira Abdul Ali Shakir has been involved with the International Black Summit for many years.

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And I'm just going to read a little bit about her. I'm going to read her bio right now.

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So. Here we go. Shakira Abdul Ali is an organizational development consultant, facilitator, trainer, and coach.

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With proven success in delivering business, organization, and personal effectiveness programs. She has supported institutions and generated value, generating value through assessments for diversity, equity, and inclusion.

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Supplier diversity programming and development. Designing and managing culture change and organization learning. And building high-performance teams and work systems.

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MBTI qualified facilitator. Shakira Ali also uses such instruments as the Eniogram.

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And to assist clients in identifying strengths and challenges. Her professional experiences include a tenure of some 17 years in the public sector.

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Where she served variously as an economic development planner for the city of Newark. Assistant Director for the New Jersey Governor's Study Commission on Discrimination in Public Contracts.

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Technical assistance officer administrator. And Chief of Minority Business Enterprise for the New Jersey Department of Commerce and Economic Development.

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More recently, she served as the director for the city of Trenton Department of Health and Human Services.

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And was recently appointed to serve as a board member for Governor Murphy's newly created maternal and infant health innovation authority.

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Shakira also worked in the private sector, providing support to public sector agencies in the delivery of human resource and business diversity compliance management programs.

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As a senior slash special project manager for Armand Resource Group. Abdul Ali managed compliance for millions of dollars of contracts for minority and women owned businesses.

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She designed one of the largest compliance review initiatives in the country on behalf of the City of New York.

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That project comprised a review of 45 city agencies purchasing practices. In order to design a program to increase procurement from medium and from minority and women

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Women owned businesses. She delivered a similar project for a countywide mental health services agency in Michigan.

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For that effort, she designed a process and led a team to conduct an organization wide assessment for diversity, equity, and inclusion.

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And designed a culture change initiative to assist the agency in addressing the barriers and maximizing the assets to incorporate a new vision for DEI in that agency.

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Shakira earned a baccalaureate degree in economics and urban studies from Wellesley College and a Master of Science in Organizational Development.

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From the American University slash NTL program. She is a member of the NTL Institute for Applied Behavioral Science.

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And she acquired coach training with new ventures. West ink as well as a certificate of leadership fight for diversity training with the National Coalition Building Institute.

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She is a co-author of the Sustainable Enterprise Fieldbook when it all comes together.

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A book by American Management Association and Green Tree Press Publishers. That's, that's a bio for you.

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Yes indeed. Yes indeed.

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That was so much, so much, so much. She's done so much that it was almost tongue twisting to get through all of it.

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So. Just so much for us to cover with her tonight and I'm hoping that she is ready to join us.

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You know, virtual studio. So let's see if Shakira if you're there and if you can come on camera.

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Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you, Shakira. Thank you.

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Thank you for being here with us tonight.

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Yeah. Jacky, Grace, I really didn't expect that you would read all of that.

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Read all of the girl. Everybody who's here with us to understand. Yeah.

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Well, we're excited. We're excited to have you. You know this.

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Okay. Okay, I'm excited to be here. What an honor. I feel really.

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Yeah.

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That's well.

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Oh, that's right.

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And and and jacket grace you didn't introduce yourself so Jack your jacket grace from Toronto and my name is Glenn Greenidge.

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I'm from New York City. And we will be facilitating this interview with the lovely Shakira.

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Ali?

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Yeah. Yeah, thank you so much. Okay.

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Thank you, Glenn. Thank you. See, I was so excited to get to talking about you, Shakira, that I totally stepped over introducing myself.

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Oh. Oh.

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So. So what was it like actually listening to listening to your listening to me read your bio just going through memory lane?

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Yes.

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God, how old is she? Okay.

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Hi. How productive has she been? How, how much she has accomplished.

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Yeah.

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How much she has accomplished.

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Yeah.

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That Right, right, what about the accomplishments that exactly, exactly. That's that's that's what I'm left with and I'm sure the people who are listening all of the accolades and the accomplishments that you have done and provided for our community.

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You know, around minority. Hiring and and so forth. Huge, huge amounts of money around those contracts.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But, but I'm jumping, I'm jumping ahead. So God.

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You know, and so I do think that we do wanna get into that a little bit later, but as you know, you're here and we invited you here because we would really love to explore your experience with the International Black Summit.

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Yeah.

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And how you've engaged with the summit, how you've used the tools of the summit and the distinctions of the summit in all of this really important work that you've done.

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Well, yeah, yeah.

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So, so our first question for you. Is what was your first introduction to the summit? Like what was your first engagement, your first event, your first exposure to the International Black Summit.

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Right, right. So, I had a friend who lived in the Bronx. Who had been telling me about this landmark thing.

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Or like a year. I mean, she, you know, every, you know, every few months she would call me and ask me what I like to come to a landmark forum event.

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And you know, and I always look like, you know, I, I don't think so.

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And then one time she called me and said, look, there's going to be an introduction. To landmark and it's gonna be led by this brother really cool brother named Glenn Greenwich.

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And, if you attend this. Introduction and you attend this this program. Then you'll be you'll be eligible to go to the International Black Summit.

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I said, hmm, what's the international black summit? Now that I had an interest in.

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And that was in 1993 in the spring of 93. That year the summit met in Oakland.

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So I attended the landmark forum. I, you know, did that at that time. That was the prerequisite to attend the summit.

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And I was, I found that to be interesting because I asked her, I said, well, why do I have to go to this landmark thing in order to get to the summit?

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And they said, well, you know, when you come in the room, we really want to be able to engage with you.

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And not all your stuff. So, you know, the, you know, the landmark helps you kind of get, yourself out of your own way.

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So that when you come to the summit, you can engage. And I thought, okay, you know, that's kind of forward thinking.

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So I made, I made my way out to Oakland. And. I'll tell you, I have a story about that particular summit.

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Yeah, absolutely. I love a good story.

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Can I share it? Okay, yeah, so, Yeah, so my story about the summit. It begins with this brother from Pittsburgh who stood up and was talking about, you know, the conversation that was going on in the room.

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And he said he acknowledged that. As a result of the conversation that was going on in the room. He was gonna go back to Pittsburgh and you know, find someone to mentor.

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He said, When he left Pittsburgh, he vowed he would never ever go back because Everybody he knew was either dead or on drugs or in jail.

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And so he, he had no attention to going back and said, if I, get out, I'm not going back.

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But as a result of the conversation in the room. He decided that he should go back and see what there was for him to do there in the community.

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So, I believe it was, Jake, who was one of the facilitators, one of the, black male facilitators, at that time the summit had 5 facilitators 3.

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3 males and 2 females. And so one of the facilitators hugged him. And it was, you know, it was a good hardy embrace.

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And he stood back and he was kinda choked up and he said, You know, that's the first time I've ever been hugged by a black man.

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You said, I, my own father never heard me. And, you know, and so of course, the 3 brothers, they hugged him.

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And the next thing I know. Every male in the room was up on the stage in a bear hug.

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And all of the women in the room were just in tears. That moment was so palpable so I mean, it, it reverberated.

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The walls were reverberating. I couldn't even tell that story for 10 years without choking up.

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I mean, it was that powerful. And my story about that is that was in 93. I say that was the opening in the universe for the 1 million man march, which occurred 2 years later.

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Hmm. What an interesting connection.

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Yeah. So, so my, story about the summit. Is that it is a space. For transformation for individuals and for our community.

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And by virtue of that really for the world. And I think that we're seeing some of that become manifest.

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I mean, it certainly, it certainly happened for me. I have to say that I, probably got my.

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The last portion of my career from participating in the summer.

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What a

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So, so given that given such a big impact. How were you able to use some of the tools in your day-to-day living?

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Hmm. So. Yeah, sure.

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Can I can I stop you there a little bit? I mean, you guys have obviously known each other for a while, given that you, Glenn was there with you back in 1993.

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Yeah.

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So let me try to jump in here. I feel a little left out. I wasn't there.

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1993.

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So just a little bit about that, back it.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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Okay. Yeah. You're Glad you remember that, right? Yeah.

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So I'm just trying to envision a little bit that 1993 and like you said back in 1993 when the summit was first created in 1,991 for the first few years in order to attend the annual somebody event you had to attend this course called the Landmark Forum led by an organization called Landmark Education now known as Landmark Worldwide.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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And eventually the summit created its own prerequisite course. So now we have our own prerequisite course.

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Yes.

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So that's it's a different process today. But at that time. Engaging in landmark and then moving into the international black summit.

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So I'm a little bit curious from Glenn. The your experience of those that period of time, 1993 Oakland.

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Introducing people having them show up like that What was your experience of what Shakira just shared back in 1993?

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Well, again, for me as a black man, the whole energy shifted. I mean, there was those like total energy shift in the space.

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And and the thing And so after all the men kind of grouped then the women grouped around the men.

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Good.

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So it was that whole, it was healing. Is what took place. There was those this healing energy that was in the space.

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And, and, and prior the prior 2 years we were kind of bumping up with all of the the negativity that was associated with our community.

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And so this was definitely a way of healing. And love. And that agape love, you know, it really was present and so you know, I mean.

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Shakira pointed to it. I mean, you know, You know, I get goosebumps myself when I think about it, even speaking about it now.

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Hmm.

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Because that's, you know, that was the, we knew we were at the forefront of something.

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Magnificent, a miracle we were crating miracles inside of that conversation. And we were excited about it.

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And we're excited to let people know about it and to fight people in. To wherever they were in the conversation.

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Yeah.

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And it was just, again, healing is the thing that really comes to mind for me.

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I think.

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Yeah, it was powerful. Possible.

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Thank you. Both for that. I will say, you know, the summit was originally the idea for it was originally created by 2 women, you know, meeting and having a coffee or a drink or whatever and created the idea for this out of their conversation around them.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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And so to see that space opening up for black men in that way and the and the support of the women in the room as well completely sounds like it was inside of that vision for sure.

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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So thank you for that detour, Glenn and you were you were then going to take, ask Shakira another question.

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Yeah, well, just wanted to find out. So, you had this, this, this manumental experience.

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What were you then able to take into your life? From that experience.

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Yeah, well, so.

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Yeah, so there were several, several benchmarks, I guess. Along the way after.

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93. I didn't go to the 94 summit. I wasn't able to get there.

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Yes.

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But I went to the 95 summit. The 95 summit was in New York. And I think in 93 there might have been maybe 300 people or so in the room.

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I think, 95 was the largest one that I've been to and I think there were probably about 500.

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That's about right, yeah.

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500 people in the room. In New York. And

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I'm kinda I wanna share like a little bit of my experiences in the summit to help you. Kind of get how how those experiences impacted my life, right?

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So in 93 what I got was I mean you know that this as you were talking about this whole healing effect.

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And so for me, the summit. Really took on. Like, a, almost a magical space for me.

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Like, I, when I thought about the summit, I thought this is a space for healing. This is, this is, I didn't think of it as feeling like I couldn't, I don't know that I would have.

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Said that that this is the healing space for the black community at that time, but I knew it was like This is the space where we come into our own.

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Like we become our own then our own women. Like we're no longer. Chattle, we're no longer subject to the stories that others tell about us.

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We now have a space to generate our own story. About ourselves. So when we get to the Oh, when I got to the summit in 95.

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I The thing that struck me about the summit and 95 was This idea of.

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We don't do consensus in the summit. We do. Alignment, right?

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Alignment.

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And so. I didn't I didn't really understand what that was until the conversation came up about where will we do our next summit.

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I mean, and and we say we are we've been calling ourselves international. We've, you know, we've been to Atlanta, we did the Oakland, we did the to, and New Orleans, we, you know, where we, you know, when are we going to be international?

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And there was a whole, I mean, 500 black folk in the room, you know there was some conversation.

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I mean, it was it was an amazing thing to witness. 500 disparate ideas and attitudes and understanding about what it means to to be international.

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Well, what does that mean? You mean Caribbean? Do you mean you know, Canada, you know, where are we talking?

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You mean Africa and where, so what are we talking about here? I mean, and I mean, and to watch.

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The watch people go up to the front of the room. And say what was so for them in the space.

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And have the room begin to shift. To the point where everybody landed on Nairobi. Everyone landed on Nairobi at the end of a process.

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I don't know how long it took several hours. But just to witness that. I mean, what that meant for me was that if you share from your your heart.

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You know, your heart and your head. And you're good. If you share from those places.

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Eventually, you will get to the point where. Everyone will hear the same thing you're hearing.

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And, and it, it really. It really. Made an impression.

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On my sensibilities about what is possible in human relationship. And so just, you know, now, I mean, I knew that it was possible among us as people of black African descent.

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But for me personally, I began to understand that it is possible. Really? To talk until you get to the point of discovering the truth that lies between anyone.

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You know, that lies between humans regardless of who they are and where they come from. So that was a learning for me and and something that I held on to as I moved forward in my career.

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I didn't go to grad school to to get my, master's in OD until 2,001.

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This was like early, you know, early mid 90. And I'm still kind of formulating it that one.

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In fact, the time that I was thinking about going to grad school, I thought I might go into engineering.

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I don't know. I mean. I can barely count, but anyway.

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I, I was kind of watching this process. In the summit, you know, kind of really growing as as a human being.

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Participating in this process. And so. Moving forward. I you know, I think around maybe 90.

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7 or so, 96 97 or so after Atlanta. I think we went back to Atlanta and 97 was it?

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I believe so.

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97. After that, I thought I'd like to. I really admired.

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The way the facilitators at the front of the room. We're able to to listen people.

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Into whatever truth they were looking to discover about themselves and about each other. And so I thought I'd like to see what that's like.

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I'd like to. Participate, you know, like grow myself as a facilitator and that was actually the opportunity.

367:58:02.000 --> 367:58:18.000
The opportunity that was made available to us. You know, we could start kind of. Self generating ourselves as facilitators.

367:58:18.000 --> 367:58:28.000
And I, you know, kind of joined that group and did that work for a little while. My family life, you know, got to, you know, I had to do some things with my family and I kinda.

367:58:28.000 --> 367:58:41.000
Moved out of that process after another year or so, but it definitely shaped my desire to go back and learn how to facilitate that's why that's how I ended up going back to grad school.

367:58:41.000 --> 367:58:47.000
So, you know, couple of really interesting things for me. Again, I was not there in the in the nineties.

367:58:47.000 --> 367:58:58.000
And, and when you talk about the alignment process. Which is for those who aren't familiar who are listening and aren't, you know, aren't familiar with it.

367:58:58.000 --> 367:59:09.000
It's a process used by the summit to determine direction for the summit. Certain key areas. And has and has typically been used by the summit.

367:59:09.000 --> 367:59:17.000
To determine where the next location for the annual summit event will be. You know that kind of thing.

367:59:17.000 --> 367:59:29.000
And, and when you talked about the facilitators at the front of the room, is that any annual event there's typically anywhere from from 2 to 5 facilitators up at the front of the room at any given time.

367:59:29.000 --> 367:59:46.000
And and the way that they listen to the conversation that's happening in the room. And the way they can hear what's being communicated in the words, through the words, underneath the words.

367:59:46.000 --> 367:59:47.000
Behind the wall. Yeah.

367:59:47.000 --> 367:59:54.000
You know, behind the words, outside from the street from the like the just the depth of the list of the listening.

367:59:54.000 --> 368:00:06.000
Something that for me was always a very significant draw into the summit conversation for me and also like you one of the reasons that I joined the facilitator body.

368:00:06.000 --> 368:00:20.000
And one thing that I'll mention, tonight is that that depth of listening and the beginning to train into that type of listening is one of the is one of the purposes of the one day prerequisite course.

368:00:20.000 --> 368:00:21.000
Yes.

368:00:21.000 --> 368:00:27.000
You know, so used to be that the prerequisite was the landmark forum and then the summit designed its own prerequisite.

368:00:27.000 --> 368:00:42.000
We have the one day prerequisite course and one of the purposes of that course is to begin to have participants authentically listen in a particular way so that once they're in the room once we are in the room together.

368:00:42.000 --> 368:00:53.000
That the conversation can move. With a. A depth. A a level of authenticity.

368:00:53.000 --> 368:01:06.000
Sophistication, a a communion, a like just a whole different way of engaging in group. And moving forward.

368:01:06.000 --> 368:01:07.000
Yeah.

368:01:07.000 --> 368:01:13.000
For me that has been different, you know, moving forward in the conversation moving forward at the level of energy moving forward at the level, you know, just all of these different layers and levels.

368:01:13.000 --> 368:01:17.000
Alright.

368:01:17.000 --> 368:01:18.000
Yeah.

368:01:18.000 --> 368:01:24.000
Happening at the same time. So So for anybody who's listening and who's interested in the one day prerequisite course, I would say highly recommend you checking that out.

368:01:24.000 --> 368:01:25.000
Yeah, absolutely.

368:01:25.000 --> 368:01:29.000
Yeah, and let me add this as well. Because there's the, I wanna distinguish, leading an event versus facilitating.

368:01:29.000 --> 368:01:43.000
And, and we both ladies have spoken. Deeply to the listening. So there's not a manual, there's not some place that we want to get to.

368:01:43.000 --> 368:01:59.000
Facilitating is listening the space. And inside of the space determine what the next conversation is. And when someone comes to the mic because there are some interactions with who is facilitating at the front of the room.

368:01:59.000 --> 368:02:10.000
It's an opportunity for the person who's come to the mic. To listen themselves, listen to where Life is asking them to look.

368:02:10.000 --> 368:02:32.000
So it's not, so nobody is being directed. But you're directing yourself based on the the inquiry that takes place between the facilitators and you as the participant and you get to see something for yourself inside of that interaction which is very unique for everybody.

368:02:32.000 --> 368:02:41.000
So it's not like one size fits all, so it's very individualized. And it's, Experiential.

368:02:41.000 --> 368:02:43.000
So something that you experience. And you yeah perfect

368:02:43.000 --> 368:02:51.000
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I wanna, yeah, yeah, I wanna do, I just wanted to say a little bit about that.

368:02:51.000 --> 368:03:14.000
I mean, The reason that people needed to go to landmark and the the reason that the summit wanted to create its own prerequisite is so that the participant, the person entering that space.

368:03:14.000 --> 368:03:29.000
Begins to feel the freedom of shedding themselves of the the masks and the protective coverings that we build up and use every day in this society.

368:03:29.000 --> 368:03:30.000
Absolutely, yeah.

368:03:30.000 --> 368:03:38.000
I mean, you know, the, I mean, whether you're black or white in this society in this Western world that we live in any world really.

368:03:38.000 --> 368:04:02.000
You know, it requires that we, it, It asks us, the required, it asks us to put on certain persona, you know, so you know, you have a job, you have a, you have, you live in a certain neighborhood, you got a car, you got, you know, you got a particular walk, you're involved in some kind of game, you're, you know, you're

368:04:02.000 --> 368:04:12.000
moving through your life according to how others have defined you. And you know you've taken on whatever roles.

368:04:12.000 --> 368:04:23.000
That people have given to you. And what we're asking, what the summit asks. For us is for us to strip ourselves from all of that.

368:04:23.000 --> 368:04:33.000
Covering and get real with ourselves, first of all. You know, to get real with ourselves like what do I really want?

368:04:33.000 --> 368:04:47.000
What do I really have to contribute? What am I really afraid of and is that something to fear? And, you know, and so you, you, you're able to kind of shed yourself.

368:04:47.000 --> 368:04:50.000
Of those, of those false. Protectors, you know, those shields, false shields of protection.

368:04:50.000 --> 368:05:04.000
In order to kind of come into the space just open. You know, and ready to explore and experience what's possible.

368:05:04.000 --> 368:05:14.000
Because, you know, that's 1 of the things that the summit opened up for me like. You know, really, we are a gift to the world.

368:05:14.000 --> 368:05:38.000
And who are we in that gift, you know, in that in that space of being? And so, Yeah, so like I said, I mean, That really the summit conversation really has helped me to shape a life where I felt like I like I've been able to be a contribution.

368:05:38.000 --> 368:06:02.000
And, and while. While making that contribution become. You know, like getting deeper and deeper to by core, you know, as, I think, both of you share that I'm Muslim and and we're in Ramadan and I wanna say that You know, in Islam, they say the greatest jihad.

368:06:02.000 --> 368:06:14.000
The greatest struggle is the struggle within. Cause like there's no. Roadmap. There are no instructions about exploring who you are as an individual.

368:06:14.000 --> 368:06:22.000
Who you are as a human being. That takes some exploration it's the and it's the most challenging one you'll ever confront in life.

368:06:22.000 --> 368:06:30.000
And the summit conversation has helped me to engage myself in that way.

368:06:30.000 --> 368:06:31.000
So, yeah.

368:06:31.000 --> 368:06:32.000
Thank you.

368:06:32.000 --> 368:06:38.000
That's good. So they're, and so one of these things, so there's a summit conversation.

368:06:38.000 --> 368:06:45.000
Event and then there's a summer conversation that you carry with you. From in your day-to-day living.

368:06:45.000 --> 368:06:51.000
And so, I'd like to find out. So what are some of the distinctions?

368:06:51.000 --> 368:07:06.000
Which are some of the tools that we use in the summer. Now these are words that that we of captured but we look at it in a particular way so we distinguish it inside of our particular space.

368:07:06.000 --> 368:07:09.000
A little differently.

368:07:09.000 --> 368:07:10.000
Yeah.

368:07:10.000 --> 368:07:13.000
Can I can I just me and my me and my tangents? I just have a bit of a tangent.

368:07:13.000 --> 368:07:18.000
Yeah. I love. Yeah.

368:07:18.000 --> 368:07:19.000
Yeah, I got a

368:07:19.000 --> 368:07:33.000
I hope that's okay, Glenn. cause as you were talking about what was what made available in the prerequisite and what that makes available for people so that they can shed the the inauthenticities shed the mask and come into the space open.

368:07:33.000 --> 368:07:47.000
And the thing for me about that, that absolutely is true and has been true for me. And if you are already somebody who has been shed of those masks, there's something else for you in the conversation.

368:07:47.000 --> 368:08:03.000
Like the thing for me about the summit conversations. That people can come into that conversation. In completely different places and there will be something in that conversation that sounds like it's speaking directly to them.

368:08:03.000 --> 368:08:11.000
So if that's not your thing. The conversation will still speak to something that that's that is for you.

368:08:11.000 --> 368:08:26.000
It's almost it's almost like there is This. Unique capacity within the within the conversation to almost be screening itself.

368:08:26.000 --> 368:08:35.000
And and speaking it's speaking directly to me and it's saying these things but it's saying something slightly different to the next person, the next like it's speaking.

368:08:35.000 --> 368:08:42.000
It's almost like it's speaking a hundred different languages to a hundred different people. It's like everybody's getting a customized.

368:08:42.000 --> 368:08:44.000
Tailored conversation in that same one conversation. I don't know how it happens. I'm not gonna, yeah, it works.

368:08:44.000 --> 368:08:49.000
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

368:08:49.000 --> 368:08:57.000
I'm just going to say that there's something really unique about the universality of the it's like a customized universality in the in the conversation.

368:08:57.000 --> 368:08:58.000
Yeah.

368:08:58.000 --> 368:09:09.000
And so, so whatever it is for each person, it'll be tailored to them. I wanted to say that.

368:09:09.000 --> 368:09:10.000
Yes.

368:09:10.000 --> 368:09:13.000
Yeah. Well, I think, yeah, and I think. Some of that has to do with the distinctions that have merged over the over the decades.

368:09:13.000 --> 368:09:25.000
That the summit has been working I mean these are distinctions that have come up as a result of all of the conversation, all the listening and the conversation.

368:09:25.000 --> 368:09:35.000
That got generated. So for example, you ask when one of the ones that, you know, what are the distinctions that, ring true for me on a day to day.

368:09:35.000 --> 368:09:42.000
Basically, I need to think about it. This is just always there, which is there's no out there.

368:09:42.000 --> 368:09:43.000
Hmm.

368:09:43.000 --> 368:09:50.000
Like everything I see. Everything I experienced. Everything I know and don't know. Lives inside of me.

368:09:50.000 --> 368:09:57.000
It looks like it's over there, but it really, it. If I didn't, if there wasn't something.

368:09:57.000 --> 368:10:08.000
Yeah. Excuse me. If there wasn't a kernel of need. Yeah.

368:10:08.000 --> 368:10:17.000
And that, experience for event, I wouldn't even see it. In other words, it's got to be somewhere in me in order for me to even see it.

368:10:17.000 --> 368:10:19.000
Pay it any attention. Yeah.

368:10:19.000 --> 368:10:42.000
Exactly. I wouldn't know it. So, you know, if I, you know, I walk into a space and, Oh, I see someone and you know, we kind of catch each other's eye and for some reason there's like a little discord like I don't I don't know that woman why would there be that discord?

368:10:42.000 --> 368:10:47.000
There's something. What is that? I gotta look inside for me. Like it's not her, it's me.

368:10:47.000 --> 368:10:49.000
What's going on with me? And that is

368:10:49.000 --> 368:11:00.000
So. How have you used? How have you used that in, you know, we started tonight with your incredible biography.

368:11:00.000 --> 368:11:08.000
So how have you used that distinction and other distinctions in work and in the projects that you've done over these years.

368:11:08.000 --> 368:11:11.000
Well, so.

368:11:11.000 --> 368:11:17.000
As I said, I went back and got a master's in organization development. I started working with a number.

368:11:17.000 --> 368:11:29.000
In fact, I actually do started doing organization change work even before I knew what it was. Meeting, when I was working for the commerce department.

368:11:29.000 --> 368:11:35.000
We, I don't, I'm going to that whole story. I'll just say that.

368:11:35.000 --> 368:11:48.000
One of the things that I, that I have learned. Largely through working with the summer. or amplified certainly by working with the summit.

368:11:48.000 --> 368:11:57.000
Is that if you really want to help people. To.

368:11:57.000 --> 368:12:13.000
See a particular opportunity. Or recognize a solution to a to a situation. Or manage a dilemma, you know, something that's got problems on all sides.

368:12:13.000 --> 368:12:19.000
You really have to kind of get in the space where they are. In order to help them do that.

368:12:19.000 --> 368:12:28.000
And that's 1 of the things that I witnessed in, you know, in the various summits that I participated in.

368:12:28.000 --> 368:12:45.000
Like the facilitators. We're always able to kind of. I mean, you were talking about how they kind of speak to everybody in the room saying, you know, to have they were having individual conversations with everyone in the room with the same conversation, right?

368:12:45.000 --> 368:12:59.000
And it's and it's because they were able to put them themselves. Hi, alongside the person listening.

368:12:59.000 --> 368:13:07.000
Saying, okay, instead of so, you know, this is kind of one of the examples I use, you know, here's a person A and person B and you're trying to resolve the situation.

368:13:07.000 --> 368:13:37.000
Well, it's very difficult to resolve the situation if you're looking at it like this. Best way to do is for each of you to turn, get side by side and try to look at the issue from, you know, together like you're both seeing that seeing it from a much more similar angle.

368:13:41.000 --> 368:13:42.000
No, that makes sense.

368:13:42.000 --> 368:13:43.000
Absolutely. Yeah.

368:13:43.000 --> 368:13:55.000
Even this is a a little bit different. But it's certainly better than if you're looking at it you know that you know in an oppositional way i don't know if i'm making sense but But those are the kinds of things that I witnessed in the summit and the kinds of things that I that serve me when I'm working with groups.

368:13:55.000 --> 368:13:56.000
Yes.

368:13:56.000 --> 368:14:05.000
It's sounds like also one of the distinctions was noticing. Noticing yourself noted so noticing is an ability to to look almost outside of yourself.

368:14:05.000 --> 368:14:24.000
To see the effectiveness in your communication in the relationship that you're speaking into at that point in time and you get to evaluate and assess yourself and it's like Oh, man, that, that conversation didn't go very well.

368:14:24.000 --> 368:14:28.000
Right.

368:14:28.000 --> 368:14:29.000
Right.

368:14:29.000 --> 368:14:32.000
Who was I being? What was I doing that had that caused that? And so you begin to look differently.

368:14:32.000 --> 368:14:40.000
At conversations especially ones that that you're so close to that sometimes that emotion kind of gets in the way.

368:14:40.000 --> 368:14:41.000
Exactly. Yeah.

368:14:41.000 --> 368:14:54.000
Wants it so certainly noticing is again another one of the distinctions that's part of the body of work that you get to take with you into your day-to-day life.

368:14:54.000 --> 368:15:01.000
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And.

368:15:01.000 --> 368:15:04.000
What else? Yeah.

368:15:04.000 --> 368:15:17.000
Question for you, how long were you, you know, we're talking about a couple of the distinctions noticing the distinction there's no out there, which was, I will say, often a triggering distinction for me.

368:15:17.000 --> 368:15:18.000
Yes.

368:15:18.000 --> 368:15:22.000
And triggers another one of our distinctions. Which was often a distinction, you know, like there's no out there.

368:15:22.000 --> 368:15:26.000
I'd be like, there's no out there, but I'm looking at the out there right now.

368:15:26.000 --> 368:15:27.000
Oh Right.

368:15:27.000 --> 368:15:36.000
Right there. So what would you say there's no out there? We don't mean that there's literally nothing over there we don't mean that there's literally nothing over there.

368:15:36.000 --> 368:15:37.000
Yeah.

368:15:37.000 --> 368:15:38.000
Yeah. Yeah.

368:15:38.000 --> 368:15:47.000
Yeah, it's more about ownership. You're owning the conversation. You own the responsibility.

368:15:47.000 --> 368:15:48.000
Alright.

368:15:48.000 --> 368:15:56.000
You owning the interaction that's taken place and and I think that's 1 of the things that is very supportive and powerful when you're able to do that.

368:15:56.000 --> 368:16:12.000
Whether it's on one or one or it's in a group setting. To be able to look and be accountable.

368:16:12.000 --> 368:16:13.000
Yeah.

368:16:13.000 --> 368:16:16.000
Responsible and accountable and owned. The interaction. So those are some of the cornerstones of the conversations inside and at the National Black Summit.

368:16:16.000 --> 368:16:17.000
Hmm.

368:16:17.000 --> 368:16:18.000
Yeah.

368:16:18.000 --> 368:16:20.000
So tell us a little bit more about how you've been using that in your work.

368:16:20.000 --> 368:16:25.000
Yeah, so. Oh. I think.

368:16:25.000 --> 368:16:34.000
So, you know, I do a lot of diversity work. And.

368:16:34.000 --> 368:16:43.000
I, you know, which means I do a lot of work with people who are not of black African descent.

368:16:43.000 --> 368:17:00.000
You know, people from other communities. And I think that the thing that I Got that not I didn't get it from the summit alone, but It's certainly reinforced it and really made it so for me.

368:17:00.000 --> 368:17:03.000
Which is that

368:17:03.000 --> 368:17:15.000
Every, every people. From whatever community they come from. They come with. a value and a perspective.

368:17:15.000 --> 368:17:26.000
And a set of cultural assets. That serve humanity in some way or another now. We also come with our deficits.

368:17:26.000 --> 368:17:47.000
But, you know, what I'd like to point to. When I'm working with other people is that we all come with cultural assets and and I think that The way in which that conversation.

368:17:47.000 --> 368:18:00.000
Is actualized in the summit. Allows me to share perspective with folks outside of the Black Avenue community that they don't often get.

368:18:00.000 --> 368:18:07.000
I mean, You know, I don't come at those conversations by, you know, as a way to punish people.

368:18:07.000 --> 368:18:15.000
You know, for what their 4 parents did. You know, for what they're, you know, for what their countries did for what their communities have done.

368:18:15.000 --> 368:18:20.000
I don't come in it like that. I come at it like, well, you know, we're here now today.

368:18:20.000 --> 368:18:32.000
Yes, we do have a history and there there are things there there, there were Actions set in motion that had us all land here today where we are.

368:18:32.000 --> 368:18:41.000
So and we should acknowledge that. But that's not that's not the end of the story.

368:18:41.000 --> 368:18:49.000
In fact, the story is just beginning right here right now. You know, so and I got that kind of perspective like.

368:18:49.000 --> 368:18:59.000
You know, like creating possibility. Like the the the declaration holds you know real you know, it holds a very important place for me.

368:18:59.000 --> 368:19:12.000
Like I think about the black community from the perspective of the international, the declaration of the International Black Summit.

368:19:12.000 --> 368:19:27.000
You know, changing the, story of who we are in the media. Providing social services you know generating economy in our in our own community.

368:19:27.000 --> 368:19:39.000
I mean that I live on that one. Generating economy inside of our own community. So I mean I think that the declaration and the.

368:19:39.000 --> 368:19:49.000
The distinctions. I think they just kind of become part of my DNA at this point, you know, like it's just.

368:19:49.000 --> 368:19:56.000
Part of my cellular structure when I respond I'm responding from from that from that perspective. I don't Yeah.

368:19:56.000 --> 368:19:58.000
I think that's. The best way.

368:19:58.000 --> 368:20:11.000
I really get that and and to me it almost sounds like this is a perfect time to go through the declaration because you're beginning to point out different aspects of the declaration and share that and for those who are not familiar with the declaration.

368:20:11.000 --> 368:20:15.000
What do you think, Glenn, an opportunity to

368:20:15.000 --> 368:20:17.000
Perfect. I've got it coming right now.

368:20:17.000 --> 368:20:22.000
Oh great. You know, while Glen's pulling that up, I have a question for you, Shakira.

368:20:22.000 --> 368:20:27.000
How long were you? A member of the facilitator body.

368:20:27.000 --> 368:20:30.000
Oh, probably not more than 2 years. Yeah, huh. Hello.

368:20:30.000 --> 368:20:37.000
Okay, got it. Yeah. Yeah, 2 years makes a difference. 2 years is 2 years.

368:20:37.000 --> 368:20:38.000
Yeah.

368:20:38.000 --> 368:20:41.000
Okay, good. I see it on screen, Glenn.

368:20:41.000 --> 368:20:42.000
Yeah.

368:20:42.000 --> 368:20:44.000
Okay. The declaration

368:20:44.000 --> 368:20:48.000
So should should here, I was just going to wonder, ask a Shakira would be willing to generate it.

368:20:48.000 --> 368:20:49.000
Oh, Great.

368:20:49.000 --> 368:20:55.000
Oh, absolutely. I'd love to. This is what I'm like. Favorite pieces of crows here.

368:20:55.000 --> 368:21:01.000
The Declaration of the International Black Summit.

368:21:01.000 --> 368:21:14.000
We declare. Ourselves, our community and all communities. Whole and complete. There is nothing to do.

368:21:14.000 --> 368:21:17.000
Except B.

368:21:17.000 --> 368:21:28.000
We assert that we are responsible for generating community as possibility and distinction.

368:21:28.000 --> 368:21:40.000
We listen for and grant being. To the possibility. And creation of unpredictable. Results.

368:21:40.000 --> 368:21:52.000
Our conversation of. About and for those of African descent is one of power. So-generation.

368:21:52.000 --> 368:22:03.000
Abundance. Responsibility. Unity and integrity. With the possibility.

368:22:03.000 --> 368:22:17.000
Of being. We stand for the expression of our spirituality. Ending the murders of our men, women, and children.

368:22:17.000 --> 368:22:30.000
Building economies responsible for funding our community. Maintaining wellness of being in our bodies. Providing human services.

368:22:30.000 --> 368:22:42.000
Establishing nurturing relationships. Altering the conversation of who we are in the media. And powering our youth.

368:22:42.000 --> 368:22:55.000
We declare. That our community manifests itself in the world as a contribution in the transformation of the universe.

368:22:55.000 --> 368:23:06.000
Atlanta, Georgia, October seventh, 1991. Virtual community, April seventh, 2,024.

368:23:06.000 --> 368:23:09.000
Thank you so much, Shakira.

368:23:09.000 --> 368:23:12.000
Absolutely, one of my favorite things to read.

368:23:12.000 --> 368:23:25.000
Thank you, thank you. And so for those who are not familiar with that, really, I think you'd be able to hear the connection between what you were sharing before.

368:23:25.000 --> 368:23:26.000
Yes.

368:23:26.000 --> 368:23:30.000
And that declaration. And how that declaration has shown up as a foundational aspect of who you have become.

368:23:30.000 --> 368:23:43.000
Yes, it's true. It's true. It definitely has been a part of yeah, how, how I walk in the world.

368:23:43.000 --> 368:23:49.000
You know, it's definitely like how I walk in the world at this point.

368:23:49.000 --> 368:23:54.000
I am curious a little bit about the 2 years that you spent in the facilitator body. What was your experience?

368:23:54.000 --> 368:24:04.000
At that time you would have come in as a trainee, I'm assuming. And being a part of a facilitator.

368:24:04.000 --> 368:24:13.000
Well, it was more like, so they divided us up into little Like we were, we worked in almost quads.

368:24:13.000 --> 368:24:26.000
There I think there were 4 of us. Assigned to our little group. And, and the, the instructions were that we were to self generate ourselves as facilitators.

368:24:26.000 --> 368:24:36.000
And so. We didn't really know. Well, let me speak for myself. I didn't really know what that meant.

368:24:36.000 --> 368:24:45.000
Like, I didn't. At that time, I just had no context. Or what it meant to be self-generating.

368:24:45.000 --> 368:25:02.000
It, it, it was, a fascinating idea for me. I, love the people that I worked with, in that group, and I really didn't quite know what I was doing.

368:25:02.000 --> 368:25:08.000
And, and I don't know if that was the same for everybody in my little group.

368:25:08.000 --> 368:25:15.000
But, you know, we, met weekly. We, we talked about the distinctions.

368:25:15.000 --> 368:25:34.000
We talked about the inquiry of the for the year. We. You know, basically attempted to, I think, and now, my view, this is few years ago, in the, in the nineties.

368:25:34.000 --> 368:25:46.000
So I'm not really sure, you know, I can't. Recreate any of the conversations that we had, but I do know that we

368:25:46.000 --> 368:25:59.000
We worked at attempting to Billed ourselves into the kind of leaders. Facilitators rather. Who could stand at the front of the room and leave a conversation.

368:25:59.000 --> 368:26:07.000
So. And I think it was actually to be very honest. I think it was my frustration.

368:26:07.000 --> 368:26:12.000
With the with that process that actually led me to grad school.

368:26:12.000 --> 368:26:13.000
Oh, interesting.

368:26:13.000 --> 368:26:22.000
Yeah, it that was what it was. I mean, cause I really wanted to get it, you know, like, you know, like there's a, like there's a right way.

368:26:22.000 --> 368:26:26.000
Right.

368:26:26.000 --> 368:26:27.000
There is no right way to be, yeah.

368:26:27.000 --> 368:26:28.000
That's 1 of our destinations too, right? There is no. There's no, there's no right way to be.

368:26:28.000 --> 368:26:30.000
All right, way to be. Yeah.

368:26:30.000 --> 368:26:39.000
But you know, I was still living like there was a right way. And. And so I, I decided, okay, I'm, I'm gonna go to grab.

368:26:39.000 --> 368:26:48.000
Yeah, actually what happened was I applied to grad school. I didn't know whether I wanted to be a coach or a facilitator.

368:26:48.000 --> 368:27:02.000
So I applied to. American universities. organization development program that they operating with the National Training Laboratories at NTL.

368:27:02.000 --> 368:27:12.000
And I applied there and then I also applied to New Benches West which was one of the One of the more rigorous coaching schools at the time was a year-long program and I couldn't figure out which one I wanted to do.

368:27:12.000 --> 368:27:24.000
So I applied to both. I got into New Ventures West, American University.

368:27:24.000 --> 368:27:36.000
Put me, put me on the waiting list. And after I started the New Benches West program, American University called me back and said, okay, you can start in June.

368:27:36.000 --> 368:27:43.000
So now I'm in both programs. And it just proved to be like a whole lot of work that I was.

368:27:43.000 --> 368:27:44.000
Yeah.

368:27:44.000 --> 368:28:01.000
So I ended up, I completed all but the certification room, I did the training. I mean, I did the, did the curriculum, but I didn't take the certification because I just, I couldn't study for that and also do the work that I was doing for American University.

368:28:01.000 --> 368:28:07.000
So. So I got the training and I got my degree.

368:28:07.000 --> 368:28:08.000
Oh great.

368:28:08.000 --> 368:28:17.000
Now, I want you to hear all of that is inside of self generation. You want to get that.

368:28:17.000 --> 368:28:19.000
Exactly.

368:28:19.000 --> 368:28:21.000
Yeah, yeah.

368:28:21.000 --> 368:28:22.000
Exactly.

368:28:22.000 --> 368:28:34.000
How about that? I didn't see it like that at the time, but that's little.

368:28:34.000 --> 368:28:35.000
Right.

368:28:35.000 --> 368:28:39.000
Okay. Well, and that's the thing about self generation. Self generation is really about you taking it to the next level, whatever that is, and to whatever degree that you're willing to take it to that next level.

368:28:39.000 --> 368:28:40.000
That's exactly right.

368:28:40.000 --> 368:28:55.000
So you get to discover, you get the, you get the. Unfold, open up. And take things on that you might not have taken on.

368:28:55.000 --> 368:28:56.000
Exactly.

368:28:56.000 --> 368:29:08.000
Had you not been grappling with this conversation called self generation? Effect and I will also point to that I suspect that that was also part of the work, all of the work that you were doing.

368:29:08.000 --> 368:29:09.000
Yeah, true.

368:29:09.000 --> 368:29:13.000
In the commerce in New Jersey and so on and so forth. With the minority contracts and so on and so forth.

368:29:13.000 --> 368:29:14.000
Hmm.

368:29:14.000 --> 368:29:22.000
Again. Because those weren't defined programs, you defined those programs. If I'm accurate about your career.

368:29:22.000 --> 368:29:39.000
Some of them were. Yeah, well, well, what's interesting is by the time I with applying to those programs this was to that, like late 2,000 to early 2,001.

368:29:39.000 --> 368:29:54.000
Right? I guess I got into, I got into American in, this, in both, programs the summer, again, the New Ventures West was May, 2,001 and, American University I entered in June, 2,001.

368:29:54.000 --> 368:30:08.000
And by that time I was working independently. But I was working, at that I think the project I was working on at that point was at Cornell University's, industrial labor relations school.

368:30:08.000 --> 368:30:19.000
They have a They have a, their IR school runs, a management development program.

368:30:19.000 --> 368:30:20.000
Yes.

368:30:20.000 --> 368:30:25.000
Kind of like American Management Association, you know, how they how they run courses. Well, I ILR also ran a management development program and they had.

368:30:25.000 --> 368:30:29.000
Yeah, that was that was a change management. Effort that I that I facilitated for them as well.

368:30:29.000 --> 368:30:50.000
They were at that time they had 4 different units. They had a unit that did labor relations, that did, people employment opportunity, a labor, one that did management development and one that did, labor relations.

368:30:50.000 --> 368:30:54.000
And, and they had like a group of people that. Would register you in in one of those programs and then they had a group of people that would teach those programs.

368:30:54.000 --> 368:31:14.000
So they were operating almost like 4 different programs. And what the leaders of that of that. Program did was they wanted it to go from 4 units to 2.

368:31:14.000 --> 368:31:22.000
And so I just I help their staff reconfigure themselves into a program development group and a registration group.

368:31:22.000 --> 368:31:30.000
So you can register now. Into any one of those 4 programs. You didn't have to, you know, go to 4 different registrars.

368:31:30.000 --> 368:31:41.000
You could just go to one registrar and the same thing with the program development people they were working with all the faculty and so the faculty members only had to deal with one you know with one group.

368:31:41.000 --> 368:31:45.000
Instead of 4 different groups depending on what they were teaching. So, that was what I was doing in 2,001 and I remember.

368:31:45.000 --> 368:32:00.000
It very specifically because 9 11 happened in on the in the week that we were supposed to do our diversity class.

368:32:00.000 --> 368:32:09.000
Hmm. And, that, that was a very. That was an interesting. Situation.

368:32:09.000 --> 368:32:20.000
You know, it's interesting when Glenn talks about the self generation and how you self generated yourself and I could can really hear for myself.

368:32:20.000 --> 368:32:27.000
You know, the proactive nature of it, like inside of self-generation looking and being, okay, I'm gonna see is this a fit?

368:32:27.000 --> 368:32:38.000
If this is a fit for now but not later, and the whole process of getting clear. On what you are looking for, getting clear and clearing being another one of our distinctions, the process of clearing.

368:32:38.000 --> 368:32:41.000
Yeah.

368:32:41.000 --> 368:32:52.000
And so engaging in that process and being proactive so that it's like, okay, if this isn't, I'm going to search out what is it.

368:32:52.000 --> 368:32:53.000
Yeah.

368:32:53.000 --> 368:32:59.000
You searched out, you went to 2 different things. And also like if this isn't it and if it doesn't exist out there the next thing is I'm just gonna create it.

368:32:59.000 --> 368:33:00.000
Sure, absolutely.

368:33:00.000 --> 368:33:13.000
Right. You know, like it's like that level of self generation like it. It's not expecting the world to just give us, give us everything on a plate.

368:33:13.000 --> 368:33:14.000
Yes.

368:33:14.000 --> 368:33:22.000
It's like being willing to self-. In in our context what it is that we are looking for or wanting to bring into the world for ourselves or for a community or for a family or you know like that.

368:33:22.000 --> 368:33:32.000
How soon? Yeah, absolutely. That is absolutely, that was the process. Like I, I knew there was something that I wanted to do.

368:33:32.000 --> 368:33:42.000
That reflected what I saw happening. In the summit space in the, you know, like. Like those, facilitators.

368:33:42.000 --> 368:33:55.000
Oh my god. Cat and Robin and JK and I mean they were just They were doing some amazing work at the front of the room and you know and I watched them.

368:33:55.000 --> 368:34:00.000
The transform a room. And I wanted to do that. You know, I wanted to be able to do that.

368:34:00.000 --> 368:34:15.000
You know, to, to, make shift happen, to make change happen. And so, but I didn't know what, you know, I didn't know there was a thing like called organization development that that's what they do.

368:34:15.000 --> 368:34:16.000
So. Hmm.

368:34:16.000 --> 368:34:28.000
So I'm, I'm just thinking about, you know, it's, April, 2024 that we're recording this tonight.

368:34:28.000 --> 368:34:29.000
Okay.

368:34:29.000 --> 368:34:32.000
And you are still out there in the world. Right? You're still out there, you're still engaging in community.

368:34:32.000 --> 368:34:40.000
You are still in these rooms. And so my question for you out of curiosity is when you're in these rooms today.

368:34:40.000 --> 368:34:51.000
What what is the difference that you see today? Versus 20 years ago or more. And what do you see as sort of the next phase of development?

368:34:51.000 --> 368:34:57.000
Because you know, we've gone through as a community these decades, like there were the things that came out of the seventys.

368:34:57.000 --> 368:35:09.000
In the eighties and the nineties, you know what I mean? So over the over the time that you've been.

368:35:09.000 --> 368:35:10.000
Hmm.

368:35:10.000 --> 368:35:20.000
Out there in these communities. And in the world. You've seen development and shifts. So I'm so I'm curious what what are the shifts that you've seen over the past 20 years or so and what do you think is the next wave or what's the next shifts that you would like to see?

368:35:20.000 --> 368:35:29.000
Okay, so are you talking about as it relates to? The summits journey or in my work.

368:35:29.000 --> 368:35:33.000
And in your work.

368:35:33.000 --> 368:35:38.000
Okay. So.

368:35:38.000 --> 368:35:43.000
I think.

368:35:43.000 --> 368:35:46.000
So let, let me just sit with that for a second. Because

368:35:46.000 --> 368:36:13.000
Yeah. And I'll say this like I'm thinking I'm thinking in terms of the kinds of clients or contexts that you were in terms of the kinds of clients or contexts that you were in 20 years ago would have had a certain kind of general way of being a certain culture that would have been true at the time that may have shifted since then.

368:36:13.000 --> 368:36:14.000
Yeah.

368:36:14.000 --> 368:36:18.000
Right, so how how those spaces have shifted over the last 20 years and then what's the next shift that you think is being asked for?

368:36:18.000 --> 368:36:26.000
Yeah, so, okay, that helps.

368:36:26.000 --> 368:36:32.000
When I think back on.

368:36:32.000 --> 368:36:49.000
The quality and the. Context of conversations. That we're going on in the spaces where I was operating and now mind you I was operating in like the public sector spaces.

368:36:49.000 --> 368:36:59.000
That we're looking to actualize affirmative action. Right? You know, affirmative action.

368:36:59.000 --> 368:37:10.000
Those conversations all had to do about.

368:37:10.000 --> 368:37:21.000
You know, tolerance of black people. Tolerance of women. Tolerance of people who were any kind of different.

368:37:21.000 --> 368:37:29.000
And. And the people who

368:37:29.000 --> 368:37:38.000
Enter the spaces. From those various angles of being black or brown or female or, you know. Differently abled or you know.

368:37:38.000 --> 368:37:49.000
Non binary or, you know, you know, anybody who entered those spaces. Came into the space.

368:37:49.000 --> 368:38:09.000
With, you know, kind of whiteness as the. Default like you know I have to walk in you know, wearing something that makes, you know, whiteness, oh, be okay with it because you know, whitelist default.

368:38:09.000 --> 368:38:21.000
So, you know, wearing locks into a space. Yeah, not so much. You know, wearing an afro, you know, you raise an eyebrow.

368:38:21.000 --> 368:38:31.000
Talking about race very overtly. Not a thing to do. and there was no conversation about white supremacy.

368:38:31.000 --> 368:38:42.000
Unless, you were not in what, you know, if you were anywhere near a white space, you never mentioned white supremacy.

368:38:42.000 --> 368:38:56.000
Now, you know, you know, like moving forward. Those conversations have become more and more real. You know, there was a, the, price.

368:38:56.000 --> 368:39:06.000
For being able to be more open in that way. You know, has, has been blood, you know, quite frankly.

368:39:06.000 --> 368:39:18.000
You know, tomorrow, tomorrow, in my computer, did I complete some names there?

368:39:18.000 --> 368:39:25.000
Florida. You know, we know the names of all the people, you know, who have been killed.

368:39:25.000 --> 368:39:33.000
And and they paid the price for us to be able to say out loud Black Lives Matter.

368:39:33.000 --> 368:39:41.000
And so. So with that shift.

368:39:41.000 --> 368:39:53.000
One of the things that I've noticed is that there are more and more white people. Who recognize that whiteness and white supremacy and white privilege have also come with a cost.

368:39:53.000 --> 368:40:12.000
To them. And so. Those people being more willing to speak up and and and at least have the conversation.

368:40:12.000 --> 368:40:27.000
In spaces where I've been. You know it just makes it that much more you know we're able to be more that much that much more authentic in how we, how we walk in the world.

368:40:27.000 --> 368:40:41.000
I mean, I and for me, you know, the story I make up about it is that this is the declaration becoming actual We are becoming the gift to the world.

368:40:41.000 --> 368:40:47.000
That we are. In our being this. And.

368:40:47.000 --> 368:40:58.000
And. And I think that that's really the shift that I see going on. Like, like black folk are actually.

368:40:58.000 --> 368:41:08.000
You know, our, are now being far more empowered. To.

368:41:08.000 --> 368:41:19.000
To be authentic. To create from our, from our authentic way of being. To.

368:41:19.000 --> 368:41:26.000
To generate ourselves. To.

368:41:26.000 --> 368:41:34.000
2. Produce the shift. That mankind is crying for.

368:41:34.000 --> 368:41:43.000
I mean, I think all of that that we see going on right now in Palestine, Israel. Is man is it's like.

368:41:43.000 --> 368:41:52.000
Like they are. Enacting. The.

368:41:52.000 --> 368:41:56.000
The

368:41:56.000 --> 368:42:12.000
The pain. They are enacting the pain. That mankind is experiencing right now. It's almost like Like they are the what, what, what do we call it?

368:42:12.000 --> 368:42:13.000
Like a ground 0 type thing.

368:42:13.000 --> 368:42:38.000
The You can like ground 0, but, what is it that, when you, that your, the, The, the, the, city, the city, you know the story, the, where there's some trouble in the community and the community decide that okay they pick out one person and that one person's trouble in the community and the community decide that okay they pick out one person and that one person is gonna eat the sins of

368:42:38.000 --> 368:42:49.000
the entire community and that one person is gonna eat the sins of the entire community and they get kind of shut out, they get, you know, they get expelled from the community, you know, so that the community says, okay, that person is going to hold all of our sins.

368:42:49.000 --> 368:43:01.000
It's almost like what's going on in Palestine in Israel is like it's holding all the all the pain that is being experienced in the world.

368:43:01.000 --> 368:43:14.000
And a lot of that pain is being inflicted by these United States. You know, we're here in the in, you know, in the space where a lot of that pain is emanating from.

368:43:14.000 --> 368:43:30.000
You know, in terms of weapons production and, oligarchy and plutocracy and, you know, just you know just a an emergence of, feudalism really.

368:43:30.000 --> 368:43:36.000
I mean, you know, these, it's almost like these billionaires really just, you know, have decided.

368:43:36.000 --> 368:43:42.000
In their own sales that you know like we're really gonna like create a new feudal system.

368:43:42.000 --> 368:43:50.000
Everybody is just gonna kind of rent from us. And we will give them, you know, we'll charge them what we will and those of us who are.

368:43:50.000 --> 368:43:57.000
You know living living on their turf, you know, it's like without pay, pay to play or we don't.

368:43:57.000 --> 368:44:04.000
But in fact, We're saying no. You know, black folk are saying no. We're not gonna do that.

368:44:04.000 --> 368:44:15.000
We're not gonna actually live like that. And, and when we, while we are saving ourselves, we're actually going to give you the opportunity to save yourself.

368:44:15.000 --> 368:44:25.000
And I feel like that is. Really what is. What is what is kind of being played out on the world stage.

368:44:25.000 --> 368:44:41.000
With with black folk rising here in the US. And Palestine Israel, you know, like really kind of pointing out, you know, that this, He, that the Western world is trying to impose on brown people.

368:44:41.000 --> 368:44:45.000
That's all played out right there. And you know, that the Western world is trying to impose on brown people.

368:44:45.000 --> 368:44:49.000
That's all played out right there, you know, in that small little country. And

368:44:49.000 --> 368:44:50.000
Yeah. Okay.

368:44:50.000 --> 368:45:01.000
So I have a question for you as as you talk about as you talk about that. One of the things that we talked about at the earlier in the conversation was the prerequisite course.

368:45:01.000 --> 368:45:11.000
Both when it was the landmark forum and when it was then designed to be the sum its own prerequisite course.

368:45:11.000 --> 368:45:12.000
Yes.

368:45:12.000 --> 368:45:20.000
You described it as being a process where people would leave their masks. Outside of the room like be able to shed their masks so that they could engage in the conversation from a place of authenticity.

368:45:20.000 --> 368:45:21.000
Right.

368:45:21.000 --> 368:45:27.000
And then I asked you about the shifts in these rooms that you're in in these communities that you're in in your work.

368:45:27.000 --> 368:45:39.000
And the shift that you've seen over the past 20 years. And you engage in a conversation around people who are really engaging from a different place of authenticity.

368:45:39.000 --> 368:45:40.000
Yes.

368:45:40.000 --> 368:45:45.000
So, 20 years ago, the expectation was you had to engage from a place a full mask on. In fact, don't just wear one mask.

368:45:45.000 --> 368:45:49.000
Yes.

368:45:49.000 --> 368:45:50.000
Yes. Yes. True.

368:45:50.000 --> 368:45:58.000
We're 10. Where 10 masks in order to be in this room. Now it's like, okay, we're not asking you for 10 masks.

368:45:58.000 --> 368:46:05.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll put 2 on to make you comfortable.

368:46:05.000 --> 368:46:06.000
Yeah.

368:46:06.000 --> 368:46:27.000
You can only wear 2. You can shed some of the masks. Yeah, but that there's there's a stripping away of the level of inauthenticity that that most people were operating from in the society 20 years ago and many people are still doing that today but that it's that there's been a shift that more people are refusing to operate from that space.

368:46:27.000 --> 368:46:28.000
Yes, that's very well.

368:46:28.000 --> 368:46:36.000
And that you're seeing a global. Now I'm not sure if I, I can immediately see the.

368:46:36.000 --> 368:46:46.000
I see what you were saying about pain in the world. And pain in in you know the Gaza conflict clearly playing in the Gaza conflict.

368:46:46.000 --> 368:46:47.000
Yeah.

368:46:47.000 --> 368:47:00.000
But us as humanity. Look at releasing. Levels of pain and perhaps perhaps looking at engaging in ways.

368:47:00.000 --> 368:47:07.000
That can allow for the few full humanity of everyone who's engaging. As opposed to it having to be so hierarchical.

368:47:07.000 --> 368:47:09.000
Yeah.

368:47:09.000 --> 368:47:19.000
So I also, so I asked you what was this shift in the last 20 years, but my second part of the question was what is the shift that you see is being called for next?

368:47:19.000 --> 368:47:29.000
Hmm. Yeah, so I think what's being called for next is for or. Us as.

368:47:29.000 --> 368:47:52.000
People in the Black African diaspora. And also, people in other to mule groups to really insist on Creating systems and structures that work and serve everyone.

368:47:52.000 --> 368:48:00.000
Like not just, you know, not systems and structures that serve the top 1% of the point oh 1%.

368:48:00.000 --> 368:48:16.000
But systems and structures that will serve everyone. So, you know, restructuring how we No, hold on.

368:48:16.000 --> 368:48:17.000
You're okay.

368:48:17.000 --> 368:48:26.000
What I I think we before we get there, before we get to the point where we're We're creating new systems.

368:48:26.000 --> 368:48:34.000
I think that the current systems Still have to go through a bit more breakdown. Like there's more breakdown that's coming.

368:48:34.000 --> 368:48:40.000
Like the, you know, like we see, at least in the US have the education system.

368:48:40.000 --> 368:48:53.000
Is just breaking down. I mean, people are so uninformed anymore. So much information. So much data and so much.

368:48:53.000 --> 368:49:02.000
Lack of understanding. It's hard to understand how those things are coexistent, but that's the truth.

368:49:02.000 --> 368:49:10.000
I mean, you know, you can, you can Google anything. You can find out anything and, and all that you see like people just don't know how to put the pieces together or something.

368:49:10.000 --> 368:49:18.000
I don't know. I don't know what's going on with our education system, but.

368:49:18.000 --> 368:49:25.000
It's, it hasn't broken all the way down yet, but I, see that coming.

368:49:25.000 --> 368:49:36.000
And I see that. We'll have to replace it with something that actually provides that allows people to become educated.

368:49:36.000 --> 368:49:37.000
In

368:49:37.000 --> 368:49:49.000
The food systems are breaking down. Water systems are breaking down. you know.

368:49:49.000 --> 368:49:50.000
Yeah.

368:49:50.000 --> 368:49:59.000
And so it sounds like you're suggesting that that breakdown is part of the rebirth process, like that it's a natural part of the evolution of creating something like it's part of the self generation.

368:49:59.000 --> 368:50:00.000
It's part of the ring. Thank you.

368:50:00.000 --> 368:50:04.000
Absolutely. It's so. The perfect I think the perfect metaphor is the caterpillar.

368:50:04.000 --> 368:50:12.000
You know caterpillars? They get on a they get on a tree and they eat and eat and eat until there's nothing left of the tree.

368:50:12.000 --> 368:50:24.000
Until they can't move. And so, but inside of the caterpillar, all these little tiny cells, Elizabeth, s, calls them imaginal cells.

368:50:24.000 --> 368:50:33.000
Where they get in and they start chomping away and they start you know they start transforming themselves on the inside.

368:50:33.000 --> 368:50:53.000
And you know as the caterpillar is stuffing itself these little imaginal cells cells are you know metastasizing you know throughout the caterpillar until it actually changes the DNA of the caterpillar so that when it's born as a butterfly the butterfly has no DNA.

368:50:53.000 --> 368:50:59.000
Relationship or you know it's not it's it's not a direct there's there's It's not a replica of the DNA in the caterpillar.

368:50:59.000 --> 368:51:08.000
It's its own DNA. And I think that's what's happening. Like we're, we are.

368:51:08.000 --> 368:51:25.000
You know, where there are groups of us who are fighting. So I went to a conference last week in DC and, this this white guy from Nowaukee talked about organ, he's an attorney, labor attorney.

368:51:25.000 --> 368:51:44.000
And he was talked about organizing. The restaurant workers but not the front weight staff. The dishwashers and the you know the ones who do the cleaning and the ones who you know you know the ones who are at the back of the room who you never see.

368:51:44.000 --> 368:51:59.000
They are the ones who are being organized because And these people, they have no health care, no sick time, no, you know, no benefits to speak of and they have to have 2 or 3 jobs because That's the structure of the industry.

368:51:59.000 --> 368:52:06.000
And the industry keeps it structured like that because why? Because all those kinds of jobs, home health aid jobs, restaurant jobs.

368:52:06.000 --> 368:52:29.000
Even transit and distribution jobs. All of that labor. Was actually The reason why Go and I are sitting in you too are sitting here speaking English with you know maybe an American and a Canadian accent.

368:52:29.000 --> 368:52:42.000
You know, because they brought us over here to do that kind of labor for free. So after there was no more slavery, they still keep that labor structure in place.

368:52:42.000 --> 368:52:50.000
You know, so that those people don't get any benefits because they're built on a framework of enslavement.

368:52:50.000 --> 368:53:13.000
So now we need to, you know, like throw that system out so the people who work in those jobs can actually create a living by working those jobs instead of having to piece together, you know, 5 h here and 10 h there, you know, another 10 h in this place and you know another 5 h over there.

368:53:13.000 --> 368:53:14.000
Like they built in California.

368:53:14.000 --> 368:53:15.000
Those people have 3 and 4 jobs. Because they Say it again.

368:53:15.000 --> 368:53:24.000
Yeah. I really appreciate, I, you know, I was just gonna say I really appreciate the metaphor of the butterfly.

368:53:24.000 --> 368:53:25.000
Yeah.

368:53:25.000 --> 368:53:32.000
You know, cause moving from the caterpillar to the cocoon to the butterfly and the cocoon experience.

368:53:32.000 --> 368:53:33.000
Yes.

368:53:33.000 --> 368:53:48.000
No. The, I've been told I haven't researched this myself. But I've been told that there's a moment in the cocoon where the caterpillar is no longer a caterpillar, it's not yet a butterfly, it's a goo.

368:53:48.000 --> 368:53:51.000
Yeah.

368:53:51.000 --> 368:53:52.000
Sticky gooey mess.

368:53:52.000 --> 368:54:01.000
So it goes to point where it is just goo. And then it yeah, sticky gooey mess and then it begins to turn into a butterfly and it has to go through.

368:54:01.000 --> 368:54:13.000
Up period of developing its strength inside the cocoon. And as it does that, it has to struggle its way or fight its way out of the cocoon in order to be able to fly.

368:54:13.000 --> 368:54:14.000
That's right.

368:54:14.000 --> 368:54:18.000
And so, and so for me, there's an opportunity to look. At the strength building process.

368:54:18.000 --> 368:54:29.000
So if one. That metaphor for me. Gives me a greater sense of. E's when I'm releasing things.

368:54:29.000 --> 368:54:36.000
And beginning to look to get clear on what is it that I need to release that's caterpillar stuff.

368:54:36.000 --> 368:54:37.000
Like what's my caterpillar stuff? That it's time for me to move on from.

368:54:37.000 --> 368:54:41.000
Yeah. Right.

368:54:41.000 --> 368:54:45.000
Even if I need to sit in the goo. And I'm not yet a butterfly, right?

368:54:45.000 --> 368:54:46.000
Right, right, right. Hmm.

368:54:46.000 --> 368:54:56.000
What do I, you know, what do I need to release? And then when I'm beginning to move from go to butterfly and there is some struggle, you know, it's like a baby learning to walk like it fall and they hit their head and whatever and you just get back up and you walk again.

368:54:56.000 --> 368:55:16.000
Like the whole building up of strength. For me to be able to engage in that process without. What would me without that context for me, I might bring resentment to that process.

368:55:16.000 --> 368:55:17.000
Yes.

368:55:17.000 --> 368:55:28.000
So for me to be able to engage in that process. As part of just an acknowledgement of this is what it takes to build strength.

368:55:28.000 --> 368:55:36.000
It's what it takes to build strength and it what it's what it will take for me to eventually and for us to eventually be able to fly.

368:55:36.000 --> 368:55:43.000
Yeah.

368:55:43.000 --> 368:55:44.000
Yeah.

368:55:44.000 --> 368:55:55.000
So like the growing pains of it to be able to appreciate them for me without resentment. And to be able to move through that strength building process to get to the point where we We have the capacity where all people can fly.

368:55:55.000 --> 368:55:56.000
So.

368:55:56.000 --> 368:56:05.000
Oh, yes, yes. Oh, hold on 1 Si just got a kind of a distress message.

368:56:05.000 --> 368:56:06.000
I got Yeah.

368:56:06.000 --> 368:56:11.000
Well, we have a final question for you, Shakira. Do you have time to answer the final question?

368:56:11.000 --> 368:56:13.000
Okay, sure.

368:56:13.000 --> 368:56:21.000
Okay, so our final question. Is what are 3 wishes that you have for the world right now?

368:56:21.000 --> 368:56:30.000
Oh, 3 wishes that I have for the world.

368:56:30.000 --> 368:56:35.000
I wish that

368:56:35.000 --> 368:56:43.000
All communities will. Release their fear.

368:56:43.000 --> 368:56:51.000
I wish that.

368:56:51.000 --> 368:57:01.000
I wish that the black community would. See its own beauty.

368:57:01.000 --> 368:57:06.000
And I wish that

368:57:06.000 --> 368:57:10.000
We would.

368:57:10.000 --> 368:57:16.000
We would.

368:57:16.000 --> 368:57:24.000
So select the leaders that we deserve.

368:57:24.000 --> 368:57:30.000
Yeah, those are my 3 wishes.

368:57:30.000 --> 368:57:31.000
Sure.

368:57:31.000 --> 368:57:35.000
Very clear. Thank you so much for being with us tonight, Shakira. I'm clear that you have something that you may need to attend to.

368:57:35.000 --> 368:57:37.000
Yes, I do. Yes, I do. But.

368:57:37.000 --> 368:57:38.000
So.

368:57:38.000 --> 368:57:47.000
And I'd just like to acknowledge you Shakira for the work that you've trailblazed in New Jersey.

368:57:47.000 --> 368:58:03.000
Around minority. And both women and minority. Organisations and Just just being the person that's standing for it.

368:58:03.000 --> 368:58:04.000
Thank you.

368:58:04.000 --> 368:58:10.000
Shifting you know we talk about the the caterpillar to the butterfly, but clearly you've been that.

368:58:10.000 --> 368:58:14.000
Hmm.

368:58:14.000 --> 368:58:15.000
Hmm.

368:58:15.000 --> 368:58:23.000
For that conversation in New Jersey. So I just want you to. I acknowledge you for that and to just let people know.

368:58:23.000 --> 368:58:24.000
Thank you.

368:58:24.000 --> 368:58:30.000
Who's been speaking? Who's been speaking to them? And just love. You know, I'm also a fan of economic development, obviously.

368:58:30.000 --> 368:58:31.000
Yeah, yeah.

368:58:31.000 --> 368:58:37.000
And And so it's just really heartwarming to have you here and to have you speak about.

368:58:37.000 --> 368:58:51.000
The changes that you've been able to implement. So thank you again for being part of this conversation, being part of the International Black Summit and being a woman of the world, a champion of the world.

368:58:51.000 --> 368:59:05.000
Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Yeah, so this is, and my grandson, it, somebody took my grandson to the hospital, so I've gotta go.

368:59:05.000 --> 368:59:06.000
Okay.

368:59:06.000 --> 368:59:07.000
Okay.

368:59:07.000 --> 368:59:11.000
But otherwise I would, I would love to stay with you all. And, answer some questions.

368:59:11.000 --> 368:59:14.000
I see a question in there about the. Pray for the youth. But thank you so much.

368:59:14.000 --> 368:59:28.000
This has been a joy and I really appreciate the opportunity to share. So, okay.

368:59:28.000 --> 368:59:29.000
That's a

368:59:29.000 --> 368:59:30.000
Thank you. Thank you so much, Shakira. We will be thinking of you and your grandson for sure tonight.

368:59:30.000 --> 368:59:31.000
Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay.

368:59:31.000 --> 368:59:32.000
Prayers to you and to him.

368:59:32.000 --> 368:59:32.000
Take care. ThanksGood night